Choosing You: Self-Care, Boundaries, and Breaking the Good Girl Script | Melissa Crook pt. 1
Season 3, Episode 3
Melissa is working to normalize conversations for women surrounding self-care, emotional health, boundaries, and embracing all of our beautiful and complex layers. She recognizes the barriers that women face, particularly our sisters in other marginalized communities. She is working to create a safe space for everyone and host open conversations to support, learn, and grow. The FEEL Podcast is for women who are looking for a supportive and authentic space to go on this journey together.
You can find Melissa at www.embracinglayers.com.
“No is a full sentence.”
Summary
In this two-part conversation, Jess and Melissa Crook explore the importance of self-care, particularly for women who often prioritize others over themselves. They discuss the necessity of establishing boundaries, overcoming guilt associated with self-care, and the significance of morning routines. The conversation also delves into navigating difficult conversations about boundaries, dealing with loss and grief, and the importance of self-expression. Melissa shares her personal journey and insights on how to cultivate a healthier relationship with oneself and others.
Takeaways
Self-care often comes from necessity and is crucial for well-being.
Women are often conditioned to prioritize others over themselves.
It's essential to recognize and process emotions as they are indicators of our needs.
Morning routines can significantly impact how we approach our day.
Guilt around self-care is common but can be overcome with practice.
Setting boundaries is vital for maintaining emotional health.
Difficult conversations about boundaries require calmness and clarity.
Grief is a natural response to loss and should be honored.
Both positive and negative aspects of relationships can coexist.
Self-expression is a form of self-care that enhances overall well-being.
“Both things can be true.”
Chapters
Part 1
00:00 Introduction to Self-Care and Boundaries
02:12 The Importance of Prioritizing Self-Care
04:30 Morning Routines for Emotional Health
07:09 Identifying Nourishing Activities
09:32 Overcoming Guilt in Self-Care
12:17 Understanding and Setting Boundaries
14:45 The Journey of Learning Boundaries
16:35 Recognizing the Need for Boundaries
19:27 Communicating Boundaries Effectively
21:52 Handling Resistance to Boundaries
24:16 The Role of Emotions in Boundary Setting
Part 2
1:33 Navigating Difficult Conversations
3:30 Releasing Toxic Relationships
5:45 Choosing Yourself
7:55 The Complexity of Emotions
8:50 Honoring Grief and Loss
12:45 Self-Care Practices
20:05 Final Thoughts on Self-Worth
Jessica Vanrose (00:00.97)
Welcome or welcome back to Life After Trauma. I'm Jess, your certified trauma informed life coach. If you're new to the podcast, we bring women from around the world together through conversations that will empower, support and inspire you on your healing journey. This week we have Melissa Crook, who is working to normalize conversations for women surrounding self care, emotional health, boundaries, and embracing all life has to offer.
I am so excited to have you here today, Melissa. I cannot wait to talk to you more about both self-care and boundaries. And while we were kind of getting acquainted at the beginning here, we were talking a little bit about how self-care comes from necessity for a lot of us. And I'm hoping we can just kind of jump right in there.
I feel like it is really very true that we often don't stop and take time for ourselves until we're forced to do that.
Melissa Crook (01:10.881)
Yeah, absolutely. And that's where I got to. mean, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you too, by the way, Jessica. So thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm finding, I know women all over the country. I've been fortunate to live all over the US. And the common denominator is that as little girls, we got a script that somehow told us that prioritizing everybody else before us was the way to go. Show up, serve, be there, be reliable.
Putting yourself first or saying no to helping someone is selfish. Make sure you're not selfish. And never ever did anyone talk about the fact that you needed to fill your cup so that you showed up well, so that you showed up healthy, so that they got the best of you, that you got the best of you, that it's okay to say no, that not everybody and every opportunity is going to be for you and that's okay. We didn't get any of that.
And so we get to this point where we just keep giving, giving, giving. We're following the script. We're doing the good things. We're getting all those affirmations for being so good and so reliable and so this, and we're exhausted and we're irritable and we're crabby and we're blowing up about something we shouldn't be blowing up about because we just, we're dry. We're in drought. And it's such a backwards way to think.
Jessica Vanrose (02:20.558)
You
Jessica Vanrose (02:31.864)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (02:35.531)
That that's the way to operate rather than taking the time Starting your day with some activities that nourish you that fill you up so you can show up well thinking clearly happy to be there aligned with activities and places and spaces that feel authentic to you fulfilling to you aligned with you none of that gets discussed and so
So often we get to 35, 45, 55, and we can't figure out why we aren't happier, more content, more at peace. And we've been going about it backwards. And so just unpacking that script and getting in alignment with who we are. it is such an interesting conversation that I hear it time and time again. And so my hope is like, let's, no, we're going to flip the script on this. And guess what?
Everybody wins when we do that. Nobody wins when we don't. So yeah, that's really, but I got there by hitting my own wall. I just hit my own wall and had to unpack and find a way. I just knew I'm like, I cannot live like this anymore. This is not sustainable. It's not working. And it's not working for so many other women around me and in my life as well.
Jessica Vanrose (03:38.296)
Thank
Jessica Vanrose (03:57.966)
Yeah, absolutely. I have a similar story. I, as we were talking about at the beginning here, I do work in law as well. And it's obviously a stressful area to work in. And just through going to my nine to five job, it was so exhausting. And I had actually, I was very unhappy.
I tried different things and one of them was like alcohol. You know, I tried like drinking and numbing myself every night. I tried a bunch of different unhealthy things. And then I'm not entirely sure what that first trigger was for me. But I was like, this is just not like this is not helping. And all of these things that I'm trying to do
to make myself feel better, it's not it. Like, they're not making me feel better. In fact, they're making me feel worse. And I started to the very first, I want to say the real first self-care practice I ever adopted was meditation. So, but I would love to hear about all of the things that you do in your morning to set you up and.
fulfill you and make you ready for the day.
Melissa Crook (05:28.6)
Yeah.
I do have some practices, but the first thing I do in the morning is I kind of meet myself where I'm at. So that might mean a rigorous walk first thing, or that might mean a slow coffee and journaling. And I also look at my day. What is in my day? How do I need to prepare myself? How do I need to be showing up? How many do I have several recordings? Do I have several meetings and that? And I try to do that even the night before of like what's ahead of me?
so that I can prepare properly and then I draw from those tools in my in my tools box and they require quiet time just
breathing and drinking my coffee and not getting on my phone right away and doing a little just free journaling and sometimes just looking walking outside and taking the sun on my face allowing myself to wake up because I am not a morning glory I can operate in the morning if I have to but you know I'm not a quick starter
I also know that if I've got an eight or eight thirty appointment somewhere else, I need to get going, get awake. So that might mean putting on my winter clothes and going outside and taking a walk around the block with my husband for 15, 20, 30 minutes to just get my juices flowing. Come back, do the journaling, get my shower, get myself a little more invigorated. So those are the kinds of things I consider, but I really look ahead to how I need to be prepared for the day.
Melissa Crook (07:00.011)
to help inform what I do. Another thing I'm really aware of is the emotions I'm feeling and processing. I might write those things down and see, is there anything here that needs to be unpacked that's impeding me, that's getting in my way? And I heard you had a guest on in the fall that I thought, she said this really well and I say this all the time. Emotions are our friends. They are clues. They are indicators. I do not believe in good or bad emotions. There are
harder and easier emotions, but they're all necessary and they're there to help us and our body is not against us, it's for us and she's trying to let us know what we need. So I will, if I'm feeling a little more angsty or tight or like what's happening? Is there something I need to process? Did I, you know, did I not eat something that's sitting with me well? I mean, all, you know, just kind of unpacking that being aware. I lived out of disassociation for so much of my life.
until about five years ago, that I really have learned the value into tapping into and being present in all those spaces. So that doesn't exactly answer your question at the same time. My hope is that have some tools and then meet yourself where you are. Which of these tools is going to be helpful to me this morning that I want to access? I, know, so many times people are like, I don't know where to start. And I'm like, write down five activities that nourish you.
Jessica Vanrose (08:16.526)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (08:27.937)
What are five activities that nourish you and start there? And which one of those can I incorporate? I also hear a lot from people, I don't have time. I gotta get up, I gotta get the kids out the door, I gotta make the lunches, I gotta be, I gotta drop them off school, I gotta be, I'm like, okay, in that space and time, you might take a shower what is some music you can listen to to help you get ready for your day or a podcast you can listen to. When you're driving to...
Jessica Vanrose (08:28.482)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (08:42.147)
Thank you.
Melissa Crook (08:56.749)
to work, to school, you've dropped the kids off, you've got some time in the car. Do you just need quiet? No noise, just quiet. Or some calming music. Or again, the favorite podcast. What's something that's going to help you reset? Meditation. Look at the time you already have instead of trying to find new time. It's there, just what do need to do with it? How much time do you spend scrolling?
Jessica Vanrose (09:02.36)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (09:23.587)
Okay, instead of spending 15 to 30 minutes scrolling in the morning, maybe you take that time to do some journaling or go for a walk or do a 15-20 minute yoga or just sit quietly and have your coffee without any noise. mean, whatever it is that fills your cup and helps you to feel like you're starting your day here and not, you know, we start our days by the time so many times.
Jessica Vanrose (09:23.758)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (09:51.276)
We get to start our day. We've already had a day and we're already charged up and we're at this hypervigilant high space. It's like, my gosh, that is not the way I want to start my work day. mean, you're at law. mean that you got to be clear and concise and fresh and you don't want to stay at, you know, start here in hypervigilance. And that's what I did for years. I'm saying this because I did that for years and I was wore out by noon and falling asleep by three and grabbing a coffee.
Jessica Vanrose (10:06.446)
Please.
Melissa Crook (10:20.693)
instead of feeling refreshed. I can honestly say I'm not falling asleep at three anymore because I've found ways and I pay attention to my body. If I am feeling myself stiffening up, I will stop for five minutes, do a box breathing exercise. So yeah, it's really about staying in tune to your body and giving her what she needs out of that toolbox that I've incorporated over time. There are some things that did not work for me that I was like, that's not for me. That doesn't work for me.
Jessica Vanrose (10:24.515)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (10:50.209)
I'm going to try this instead. So also be patient with yourself as you're trying things.
Jessica Vanrose (10:55.054)
There are so many things that you just said that I'm like, that, that. So first I want to say I'm really happy that you're talking about the time, like finding that time that is already there instead of trying to make time because I do feel like that is one of the biggest barriers or maybe excuses that people have.
Melissa Crook (10:59.713)
you
Melissa Crook (11:20.833)
Yeah, both.
Jessica Vanrose (11:23.466)
Let me call you out a little bit. All right. But yeah, like I love that idea. And what I'm hearing from you is that a lot of it is about knowing yourself. You need to know what things do work for you and what doesn't work for you. And like you just said, you do need to be patient with yourself. How do you suggest like for somebody who's maybe kind of just starting out,
Melissa Crook (11:25.409)
Mm-hmm for sure
Jessica Vanrose (11:53.518)
And also, I do have a question here as well. But the guilt part of it, maybe they feel guilty about even taking time for themselves. How do you suggest that they start to, I'm going to say discover or try these self care practices?
Melissa Crook (12:16.225)
Yeah, the guilt piece is a huge one and it will linger for a while because you have been programmed to think that way and your nervous system responds according to what it knows and it treats that as safe because it's familiar. And I know you've talked about this on here before rather than know this is a new way of doing things and a new shift and trust me over time, your nervous system will come along with you but
Start simple. Don't ask like, we asked so we want to make a change in them. We just want to make the change. we're to be this drastic change. And we get this fed this every year on January 1st. New year, new you know, new year, take care of you. And what does that look like? Start with naming your character traits. Do you know who you are in this moment? Stop for a minute and think about
Jessica Vanrose (13:00.942)
Hmm.
Melissa Crook (13:11.335)
Am I passionate? Am I impatient? I'm both. Am I loyal? Am I invigorated?
What is myself? How do I feel about myself? get like start with the character traits that I introduce people on my podcast by their character traits because your roles and your titles are fleeting. They are what you do. They are not who you are. So start with identifying who you are because that's going to then inform when you look at your calendar.
Okay, I've identified myself as energetic and loyal and passionate and impatient and vigorous, you know, whatever those things are. And then you look at your calendar and you're like, huh, half of my calendar is not aligning.
with who I am. It is obligations that I feel obligated to fill, but it's not really aligning with who I am. So what am I going to do about that? Because that's going to one, create more space for me to take care of myself. And two, it's going to allow me to realign with things that do fulfill me, do help me. And the guilt thing is going to be there with you. But remember, how do you want to show up
Jessica Vanrose (14:26.37)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (14:41.635)
for your people. How do you want to show up for yourself? Do you want to show up wore out and irritable and feeling like a martyr? Or do you want to show up rested and refreshed and present and not thinking about the next thing you got to get to in 15 minutes and that you're running late, but present. Filling your cup will allow you to do that. So that's something you can kind of feed that guilty piece.
Jessica Vanrose (14:43.618)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (15:08.991)
start with those character traits and then look at your calendar and look at your job look at your hobbies things that you use to fill your time do they align with you and if you don't know who you are then that's that's your first that's your first thing you're just going to sit each morning and you're going to next thing you're going to think about it's like okay I can't think of character traits what are activities that nourish me
Jessica Vanrose (15:21.966)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (15:36.78)
If I can think of the activities that nourish me, that can then inform me about my character traits, that can help me know of ways I can fill my cup and show up the way I want to for my people rather than the way I have been, which has not been as my healthiest, most authentic, most present self. And again, so being patient, taking time, but you got to get to know who you are. And those are the
Jessica Vanrose (16:00.618)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (16:06.339)
places you can start to get to know who you are. And then once you've identified those things to kind of help you stay on track, identify five words on how you want to feel the next six months. Okay, based on what I've learned, based on what I've these three to five things that I've learned about myself, who I am as a person, these things that nourish me, what am I hoping to feel like and what within this can I start incorporating into my time?
What are things I can start saying no to? No is a complete sentence. You don't have to over explain yourself or justify. It is okay to say no and no is sometimes no not right now or it's just no. And that will be hard for people that aren't used to you saying no. And it will take a few iterations and consistencies for them to believe that, understand that, respect that about you.
Jessica Vanrose (16:39.628)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (17:05.787)
And also will inform you of the people you're giving your time to. If they're not respecting that about you, you might, it's time to reconsider how much time you're giving to them. that's a lot, it's those simple, those little things over time add up and they matter. And a guest that I had on our podcast in season four, Valerie Rivera said something so important and I refer to it all the time. And it is,
Whatever you're saying yes to, you're saying no to something else. So you better be okay with that thing you're saying no to. But going back to just identify those character traits, identify those things that nourish you, look at your calendar. And when the guilt comes in, like I'm doing this because one, I am realizing the value of my time and how I want to show up in it. And two, you know,
Jessica Vanrose (17:47.48)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (18:03.907)
I want my people to remember me showing up well and full and present with them, not crabby and irritable and snapping. So, and fresh thinker, like if you're going to work, you want to be fresh and be able to respond to that in a way that allows you to be fully present and not just scattered because you're so exhausted trying to please everybody all the time.
Jessica Vanrose (18:08.896)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (18:26.986)
Yeah, for sure. I so actually one thing that I did to try and get to know myself better. I made a note So this is like going back a few years ago now. But I had made a note in my phone, and I was intentionally like paying attention to things that I was giving my time that made me feel good, or made me feel not good.
Melissa Crook (18:55.158)
Yep.
Jessica Vanrose (18:55.36)
And I made a note in my phone and was like, these things make me feel good. These things make me feel bad. And it's like, you know, under good was like nature time in nature time with friends time with family. And then under the bad was like too much TV too much scrolling. I feel like probably everybody's the same for those. But it was really eye opening. And it was a great way to kind of create I think I've heard it before is
like a menu, like a self-care menu. And yes, and you can even put like a timestamp beside it. Like this takes approximately this much time. If you look at your calendar, like, I have 10 minutes. Like, what could I do in that 10 minutes? But yeah, like those are great ideas. And I really like that you approach it that way. Let's talk about boundaries. It's so hard.
Melissa Crook (19:27.019)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (19:48.058)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
It is.
Jessica Vanrose (19:53.198)
How? How? That's full stop.
Melissa Crook (19:57.794)
Yeah!
Yeah, so if you were to meet me 10 years ago, I had no boundaries in my life, in my time, in my relationships, nothing. This is honestly something that I learned. I have three grown daughters. They're 30, almost 28 and 26.
And they all through their college time had different experiences, internships, whatnot, where they really started hearing about boundaries. They started doing their own work and really started hearing about healthy boundaries. The first time they brought this home to my husband and I, was like, and it was very much, it was approached very like, so when we're having a conversation, if I start feeling emotionally overcharged or I start feeling depleted, I'm going to put a full stop to it and ask to come back to it later.
so I can show up present. And so it sounded good in theory until she practiced it. And the first time it happened, I was just like, I'm not done talking. We're not done with this conversation. I have more to say. Who are you to tell me when you're going to come back? I mean, I was like really like really defensive and really like, she means this. She's serious about it. And it really forced me to start taking stock in one.
If she wants, if I want to have a relationship with her, that's really authentic and healthy that she wants to show up in I need to respect this, but also wait a minute. This is unpacking a whole Pandora's box of things in areas where I started realizing the codependency in my relationships and the enmeshment in places that was tacked, we're taxing my time because I was feeling responsible to try to get other people to do things.
Melissa Crook (21:41.196)
rather than just being, nope, not my responsibility, responsible for myself, and then learning how to communicate that. So it's like, okay, so I am no longer responsible for how you show up in the world.
Jessica Vanrose (21:41.335)
Right.
Melissa Crook (21:54.998)
in XYZ. What I need for myself is I'm going to only show up at this time and when I do show up in this relationship, I am not going to speak in a toxic way about other people. I am not going to talk about family members behind their back when they're not here. I'm just using some random examples here. I am not going to engage in this way anymore. If my husband and I
we're having a serious conversation or we needed to discuss something serious. We learned how to like, rather than just getting into it and him shutting down and me wanting to keep talking at him and following him to the other room. It's like, I'm starting to feel like I need a break. So how about if we take a break and come back to this tomorrow after dinner or on Saturday when I've had time to rest. So you name a time to come back to it.
The whole point being like I had to like learn this and then I had to practice it and communicate it and then stay with it because people that weren't used to me having these boundaries would push back and challenge that and not understand it. I will tell you there are some relationships in my life that have drastically changed because they could not accept my boundaries and my boundaries were not walls. They were just simply ways of like
Showing up in this space in this way in this place does not feel good to me. It causes anxiety to rise up in my body. I seize up. can't I don't feel Welcome safe healthy showing up in that way So I'm no longer going to be able to show up in this way And so it wasn't like you need to do this and you need to do that to make me feel comfortable No, I was creating this space I needed for my own health
talking in I statements and then it was up to them on how they received it. Most of the time people that are for you and care about you are going to respect that and are going to be like good on you for finding that time and space but it was a big shock to me and it takes time. So many of us are people pleasers. So many of us are in codependent enmeshed relationships.
Jessica Vanrose (23:59.512)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (24:13.975)
that we don't even know that we are in until somebody names it and we have to look at it. This can get really tricky in families where there's a lot of trauma bonds. Blood is everything. You always show up for blood regardless of how unhealthy everybody in this, how much generational trauma, whatever there is until somebody someday finally wakes up and says, I don't want to live like that. And they start expressing.
different ways of existing. So I give my daughters, especially my oldest, she was the first one to do it and the other two followed suit, credit for having the courage and enough value in themselves to state this is how I'd like to move forward. And for my husband and I for taking it and being learners and being willing to learn something new, better, healthier. And it's made all the difference in the world. And like I said, it has changed relationships. went from
emotional dumping in a lot of spaces to be in like, I don't need to do that anymore because I have learned how to process my own emotions. I have learned how to exist in relationships in a healthy way where I'm responsible for my health and wellbeing, not somebody else. So that's been my boundaries journey and I'm still figuring it out and I still...
Jessica Vanrose (25:13.89)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (25:37.828)
have to like challenge myself on conversations that are difficult. like, you just need to do this. It's going to feel better. Because once you know it, you can't unknow it. And then once you've operated in a healthy way and you fall back to an old high, but you notice it right away, like, I can't stay here. This doesn't feel good. But it takes a lot of practice and a lot of time and consistency.
Jessica Vanrose (25:42.658)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (26:06.39)
You just mentioned a lot of hard lessons, not being able, like having that realization of that you're not responsible for somebody else's actions. That was a, that was a big one. And yes, and also having that like value in yourself to be able to say no, like
Melissa Crook (26:21.623)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (26:33.281)
This is not something that's negative against the person that the boundary is with. It is something that you're doing to, if I can say, protect your energy, protect your peace, right? And ultimately, it's like the self-care stuff. It allows you to show up better.
Melissa Crook (26:44.767)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Melissa Crook (26:53.571)
Yeah, absolutely and it is a form of self-care. It really is and the hardest part I think for people is a When it feels uncomfortable sometimes or somebody doesn't respond to it in a healthy a very Recept like receiving it doesn't receive it. Well, you take that as a sign that
you've done something wrong or somebody might even say well that's really selfish. I've had people you know say that to me before like
Actually, no, because the way I was showing up before was not only not good for my health, it wasn't good for anybody here too. It was unhealthy and toxic and had a lot of unhealthy characteristics to it. And that's not how I want to be showing up in spaces. And so I, if that is the way you're processing it, that is yours to deal with, but that is not my intent. And my intent is because I'm noticing that by doing this,
I feel this way and I don't want to feel that way anymore. So I need to make some changes and this is what feels good to me. This is what feels healthy to me. you know, depending on how people receive it will determine where that time and energy to those spaces in relationships go.
Jessica Vanrose (27:59.223)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (28:13.708)
Yeah, can we talk a little bit about how somebody might recognize internally when a boundary needs to be set?
Melissa Crook (28:27.639)
Yeah, so for me, it was, I first had to realize, and I've been in therapy for over five years now, so this has taken time and unpacking. At first, I had to become aware of how codependent I was.
in relationships? I looking, was I, did I feel responsible for other people's feelings? Did I feel responsible for other people's decisions, choices, whatnot? So the first question to ask yourself, do I feel responsible for other people's X, Y,
Jessica Vanrose (28:51.555)
Mm.
Melissa Crook (29:04.021)
If the answer is yes, that is an automatic notion that you need to rethink and like, okay, not actually true. So where do I need to create some healthy boundaries and spaces so that I'm no longer doing that? And how do I communicate that to people that I have in many ways enabled to be a certain way because of this belt restriction?
Jessica Vanrose (29:30.316)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (29:34.018)
I'm an oldest. I was an oldest daughter in a very emotionally volatile home growing up and so I felt very responsible for a lot and I was allowed to and expected to so this came like You know, I it took my daughters like saying you're not responsible for your brother's mom. They are grown
ass men. You're not responsible for them and the decisions they make. You're not responsible for that thing that they did over there that's not on you. So first question is do you feel that way? Do you look to other people's affirmations for your own value? And if that is a yes,
Jessica Vanrose (30:00.204)
Ha ha ha ha.
Melissa Crook (30:18.935)
then that is one, go back to that first step we talked about, identifying your character traits, and two, remember, other people are also not, if you're not responsible for others, other people are not responsible to make you feel good, to make you feel fulfilled. That's a clue to you that your value is in the wrong.
Jessica Vanrose (30:35.405)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (30:39.467)
wrong spaces and your value needs to be taken a look at and that requires getting really into your layers journey and then unpacking your layers and the parts of yourself that you've been hiding that you have shame in that you've pushed away that you wish didn't happen and that's a whole other I mean I think to really know your value and appreciate your value and prioritize your wellness without guilt you have to do the layers work of getting okay with
and accepting and acknowledging all those layers about yourself. Then when you do that, you're like, okay, wait a minute. I want to surround myself with people that recognize that in me too. Who is not respecting that? Who doesn't honor that? Okay, I need a boundary around that relationship and how much time and energy I give to it. And if I see shifts in how they're showing up, we can adjust those accordingly. So those are some ways, some questions to ask yourself.
to kind of indicate where those boundaries might exist. And if you have any kind of an allergy to say no, I use the word allergy loosely, try it out for size. Just try it out for size. And if even say no upfront, never say yes in the moment. Give yourself 24 hours to go back, look at your calendar, think about how that feels.
Jessica Vanrose (31:40.28)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (31:46.69)
you
Melissa Crook (32:02.987)
How does that feel in your body? How do you feel when you're in the presence of those people? How do you feel when you're at that job, at that event, with that person, that neighbor, know, whatever it is, your body, if you're seizing up and you're uncomfortable or you're dreading it, you look at your calendar and you're like, God, I have to go there. If you're looking, that's, you need a boundary there. You need to like pass that off to somebody else, give your notice, whatever it is you need to do.
But yeah, those are some indicators of be present, don't disassociate, don't push back, don't listen to, somebody else will pick up the slack. You don't have to do everything. We think we are responsible for saving the world and everyone around us. We are not. We are not responsible for it, nor is it our job to do that. And it is not our job.
whether somebody else does pick that up. That is not our responsibility unless it's an area we oversee and that's a different story. yeah, that was, so those are some, hopefully one of those things or all of them resonated with people listening today of like, maybe I do need some boundaries there.
Jessica Vanrose (33:14.872)
Yeah. Yeah, I'm really glad you mentioned the body because I was going to say I need to add this. Because I think like, feeling in your body, like really paying attention to what is happening physically. Like you said, are you getting really tense? Are you feeling uncomfortable? Are you getting anxious is your heart starting to race? Are you sweating? You know, there's so many things that
Melissa Crook (33:22.22)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (33:40.514)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (33:44.3)
so many ways that your body is signaling to you that something here is not right. And that's like an area that you can look at to figure out what boundaries you want to set there. How for the people that you mentioned earlier, when we try to set a boundary and they are not very receptive to it,
Melissa Crook (33:58.016)
Absolutely.
Melissa Crook (34:08.562)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (34:09.73)
How do you recommend handling those conversations? Because I know that can be a really hard one. And I think that we probably all have a lot of fear around that. Because in a way, in a way, it can feel, I think, a little bit like rejection. Like you're saying, I need this and this person is not accepting that. And so yeah, I feel like there is a lot of fear around those conversations. What do you?
Melissa Crook (34:20.983)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (34:38.294)
What advice do you have there?
Melissa Crook (34:40.871)
This is a hard one, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's not, you you just have to keep going back to what feels healthy for you and keeping it in I statements. And you cannot control how they're going to receive it, especially if it's not how they're used to you showing up for them. So you make sure going into the conversation that you're calm, that you're collected. You maybe even have jotted down some notes.
so that you don't get off track because many times when people start getting defensive and hearing what they want to hear, they'll try to change the subject. They'll try to get off topic. They'll try to steer it back at you and make it your you're being selfish or I can't I don't understand what you're saying and you just so having that script in front of you so that you can stay on track like I appreciate that something that you've brought up but I would like to stay on track here.
because this is really important to me and it's taken a lot of time for me to put this together to realize I need to do this and I want to be really intentional and present with this. Can we not move off the topic?
Keep it in I statements. It's not about them. It is about you. And you say it and you but also in your back of your mind, you cannot control how they receive it. And so if they're upset, if they don't like what they're hearing, if they don't understand it, you're like, I understand that you're not used to me showing up this way. I acknowledge that this might be difficult. I hope that you can respect that I have not thought taking I am not taking this lightly. This is
not been a snap decision. is something I've been very intentional about and I hope that you can come to a point of understanding why this might be in you know that this is important. They don't even have to know understand the why. You can simply
Jessica Vanrose (36:38.414)
Thank you.
Melissa Crook (36:40.061)
to a point where you think enough of me and our relationship that you can respect that this is something I need to do for my for myself right now and honor myself in this way and then you have to be able and this is hard you have to be able to release whatever their response is I will tell you I have relationships in my biological family that I do not have a connection with to this day because they just could not
Jessica Vanrose (36:51.587)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (37:00.919)
Mm.
Melissa Crook (37:11.267)
wrap their heads around what it was I needed to be safe and healthy. I had to stop feeling, I for years allowed myself to continue to show up and violate my own boundaries, violate my own emotional safety to try to keep everything together and I couldn't live that way anymore.
and you can't make people do the work. you cannot make people see where these might be helpful and it's not your responsibility and you can't make people do it. You just can't. That has been the hardest thing for me to release and has taken the longest time. And I would tell you this has probably only been the last year and a half to two years max that I've even been able to release the lingering
questions and guilt in the back of my head.
trying to draw me back into these very codependent and very trauma bond informed relationships. I will also tell you my nervous system has never been more settled. I do not miss the chaos that those relationships brought. And I don't miss either so many unhealthy pieces to those. And I am now very confidently surrounded with people who authentically love me for who I am.
Jessica Vanrose (38:02.232)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (38:32.005)
want me to be well and support me unconditionally in that.
Jessica Vanrose (38:39.008)
It just made me think of a saying I actually don't mind me while I quote sex in the city.
Melissa Crook (38:46.019)
Hey, very relatable!
Jessica Vanrose (38:49.166)
But Samantha Jones in one of the episodes, she's breaking up with a guy that she she was in a relationship with and loved very much. And what she said was, I love you, but I love me more. And it's like, it's not about not wanting to be with that person not wanting to spend time with that person. It's about
Melissa Crook (38:52.885)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (39:17.854)
you choosing you. And I feel like a lot of times maybe that's where a lot of the difficulty comes from because like we were talking about right at the beginning, like we were taught growing up that that's not how we should do it. We should not be choosing ourselves first, we should be choosing other people first, and making them happy. And so yeah, I like that saying a lot.
Melissa Crook (39:45.096)
huh. Yeah, and it really goes with if you're in relationships or workspaces where they're asking you to abandon yourself.
then they are not for you. that is, and you are valuable and have a right to speak your mind, to have a voice, to be heard, to be seen. And this doesn't mean you're going to get it right. mean, sometimes when you're early in setting boundaries, it's very easy to just really set some things hard because we tend to go to 180 degrees Well, by golly, no one's going to mess with my peace now. And sometimes we have to pull
back and make that less of a brick wall and more of a see-through fence or a guardrail. And that's okay, but it's that if it feels, and you'll know, we ignore it and we push it back because we don't want it to be true.
because sometimes these relationships are really comfortable. We've got lots of years invested and there's a lot at stake. There's a community loss that can happen.
within this. don't want to sugarcoat this, but at the end of the day, you've got to make sure that you're surrounding yourself with people and places and spaces that honor your peace, that honor your health and well-being. Somatically, again, going back to how do you feel when you're present in these spaces and places?
Jessica Vanrose (41:18.542)
Yeah, I really like that. I was just thinking that like, I mean, we talk about the ego, right? And the loss of community, the loss of people that automatically just makes our ego kick in and into like, you know, flight or fight. Like safety, I can't lose my people because then
Melissa Crook (41:43.767)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (41:47.982)
It's a dangerous world, you know? Yeah, but ultimately what I'm hearing from you is that when we can choose ourself, even through the fear, even through the hard conversations, ultimately you will be happier or in a better place on the other side.
Melissa Crook (41:50.401)
Yeah, absolutely.
Melissa Crook (42:13.879)
Yeah, you just will. mean, and it is unfortunate that we have to make these decisions sometimes for ourselves in these relationships, but it's also what we owe to ourselves and the people that really are for us because I am so much better now in the relationships that I do exist in in terms of how I show up.
I feel safe, feel seen and heard, I'm authentic, I'm present, I'm listening, and I'm getting the same from them.
It doesn't feel like a threat anymore. mean, I'll give you an example. We just spent the holidays with family members and the group of us that were together feel like this has been the best. My sister-in-law was like, thank you so much for including us. This has been the best holidays we've had in years. This group, these people, we feel so loved, so welcome. And that's what it should feel like. Unfortunately, not
everybody can always show up that way all the time and that can be really hard. Also, again, going back to that, that releasing what is our responsibility, you know, and what isn't.
Jessica Vanrose (43:31.234)
Yeah. I guess I just want to dig a little bit deeper into how do you deal with the feeling of loss? Like, because I feel like when you are setting those boundaries and you're going into it knowing that some people might not be in your life anymore after this or maybe not in the way that they are, how do you deal with
the loss of that person, like the grief, if they, if that relationship does kind of fall away.
Melissa Crook (44:07.809)
I think the first and foremost thing is you have to honor the grief. So many times we want to push away the hard feelings and push away the grief and we're like, or get really like defensive or re channel it into anger of like, screw you, you lose. Instead of just like, you know what? That was hard and that hurts. And I'm going to miss this, these parts of these relationships to this day. There's a relationship in particular. There was a movie the other day and it
It reminded me of memories with this person that I had growing up that I was like, gosh, if our relationship was healthy. This might be something I would want to take this person to. So allowing yourself to have those good memories of the good things and good times while also allowing yourself to mourn the loss of the relationship.
Jessica Vanrose (44:50.35)
Mm.
Melissa Crook (45:03.783)
And resist the vilifying piece. sometimes when things go wrong in relationships, we try to vilify the whole relationship. And something bad, somebody messed up, something did something wrong, da da da da. No, you just got to a season where that relationship was no longer honoring you or health.
your existence in a way that was supportive and helpful. So you had to make a very hard decision to say some things that were going to possibly cause a rupture in that relationship continuing in the way you had known.
that also make you being very aware and present with why you needed to do this for yourself. But yeah, but don't don't rush to vilify. And just because you have good memories doesn't mean that making that decision was the wrong decision for you. Because I can own both things can be true. I can own that I miss those parts of that person. And if they were in my life today, I would go enjoy x, y and z
with them while also honoring but all the other stuff with them all the chaos that that created I do not miss one ounce of that and I do not want that back in my life again so yeah being able to hold the nuance
Jessica Vanrose (46:30.582)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that mindset right there is just, in general, a very important mindset to take in, which is both things can be true. Like there are so many situations in life where we see it as black and white, it's all or nothing. And it's like, no, like there are many, many situations where both things can be true, both things can exist at the same time. And you'll like open your life more when you can
Melissa Crook (46:59.906)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (47:04.28)
fully understand that. Yeah.
Melissa Crook (47:06.109)
Yeah, we as humans, just want to like good/bad We want to moralize and vilify and get, no, sometimes things are just complex.
And a lot of things can be true at the same time. We are nuanced, complex people. We can feel multiple emotions at once. We can feel multiple things towards people at one time. But we have to sit with and like honor what feels healthy for us now. How would I feel? Yes, I miss that thing about that person. But if I have to go see them tomorrow, if I'm told you have to go see them tomorrow, how do I feel about that? my gosh. Well, there's your clue.
Jessica Vanrose (47:22.434)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (47:41.667)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (47:45.582)
Absolutely. I completely agree. Our brain does not like things that are gray.
Melissa Crook (47:53.554)
No, no, it does not. And it wants a clear, concise answer. And it wants to convince you that if it's uncomfortable, it must be wrong, or that if they respond in a way that's not.
Jessica Vanrose (47:58.507)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (48:07.235)
good. I don't like the word good, you you don't get the response out of them you were hoping for that that means you're doing something because they're going to start throwing around a lot of language sometimes to try to make you feel bad or try to guilt you back into changing your mind or doing something different. And that's why I talk about having that script so that you can stay on task and stay in the moment. And guess what? Sometimes you won't.
Jessica Vanrose (48:13.795)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (48:33.365)
And sometimes you gotta go back and be like, I need to do over here. I started to have this conversation with you last week and it got sideways, but I need to revisit it because I value myself and this is important for my health and I need to do this.
Jessica Vanrose (48:33.614)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (48:48.354)
Yeah, for sure.
Can we talk a little bit more? We're going to go back again to self care. I figured let's maybe end this on like a super fun positive note. So I know you talked about your morning and how you like to just try and kind of check in with yourself. And I love that.
Melissa Crook (48:56.803)
Okay. Yeah.
Melissa Crook (49:14.027)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (49:17.79)
I thought I would mention what I do in my mornings that, my word, literally saves me. I was never a morning person. I was the person that would stay up all night and sleep literally as late as I possibly could and then get up and rush wherever.
Melissa Crook (49:26.54)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Melissa Crook (49:39.841)
Me too. Yep.
Jessica Vanrose (49:42.914)
That is not the case anymore. And it is all because of self care, which blows my mind. Right? Now I'm the person where I'm like, no, I will wake up like three hours before I have to start work just because I need my me time. So I love the things that have like really made a difference for me is gratitude journaling in the morning.
Melissa Crook (49:49.961)
I know, isn't that wild?
Melissa Crook (50:00.94)
Mm-hmm
Jessica Vanrose (50:13.184)
I can't, I'm not somebody who fully gets into like journaling, because you might laugh at me when I say this.
Melissa Crook (50:18.689)
Yeah, yeah, I have been flow with it. No, but I have been flow with it on how much goes in there. Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (50:24.342)
Yeah. Well, and for me, it's because I have so much to say. So like, when I do sit down to journal, I'm like, okay, we have 30 minutes, and then it's an hour, an hour and a half. And I'm like, and now I'm late again. So I struggle with keeping a regular journaling, but the gratitude journal.
Melissa Crook (50:43.234)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (50:53.592)
has been key. use the five minute journal. Love it. And then I love to do just like 10 minutes of yoga in the morning. Because like we've talked about a few times in this episode, it brings me into the present and gets me into my body. And it helps me just really become aware of
where I am at and I feel like it keeps that awareness for most of the day. Honestly, I think those are like my two biggest ones. and I love reading, but that's that's like if I have that if I have the time.
Melissa Crook (51:34.444)
Yeah, yeah, those are really good. Something that I tried a couple years ago because I was having this thing like, my gosh, I have so much to say. I tried verbal journaling for a while. I didn't stay with it, but I recorded myself and then I would go, sometimes I'd go back and listen to it later and jot down the high points, but it allowed me to get it out of my head and it's a lot quicker.
Jessica Vanrose (51:45.634)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Crook (51:58.422)
and you can even like transcribe it if you want it to. So that's something that really helped me too. Have you? Okay.
Jessica Vanrose (52:04.628)
I have done that. have because I was like, literally I was like, wait, I'm a podcaster. Why am I trying to write? Like I should just, I should just be talking this out. Yeah. So I did find that helpful. For sure.
Melissa Crook (52:17.955)
know so true that is so true yeah and I and I think too like on the gratitude journal something that I do I the reason I focus so much and talk so much about writing down all of your emotions because that actually makes space for more gratitude because my brain isn't cluttered up with the unprocessed hard stuff I've opened myself up to really appreciate that and not like
It's not a forced feeling. authentically feel that way because I've cleared out the gunk and made space for it.
Jessica Vanrose (52:55.008)
Yeah, for sure. Definitely. I just had a moment pop into my head. So I won't go into details on the moment, but there was a moment this week where I feel like this is more so well, I honestly think ties in with both. There's a moment where I had to stand up for myself and that is also really hard to do, especially
in certain areas and do you know after I did it how light I felt like I didn't I didn't even notice really how much it was weighing on me until I had the conversation and then afterwards I was like I didn't even I didn't even have a response yet because I did it in an email so I didn't even have a response yet I just got it off my chest
Melissa Crook (53:48.267)
Wow.
Jessica Vanrose (53:52.874)
and immediately felt lighter and happier.
Melissa Crook (53:57.378)
Yeah, it makes a difference. When you feel seen, when you feel known, we feel heard. If you're carrying around stored up anger, stored up frustration, it will start weighing you down. And we try to, we don't like the uncomfortable and the conflict, but it's like, it's going to come out in some ugly way if we don't process and move through it. It just is. I mean, we know this over time. You know, it does. So that matters. And then that creates more space. You feel lighter.
Jessica Vanrose (54:21.282)
Definitely. Yeah.
Melissa Crook (54:28.04)
There's not that cloud hanging over it anymore. It opens up an opportunity to resolve something. You know, because that's thing when people come to me and they keep complaining about the same thing. And I'm going to throw my husband under the bus a little bit. He can handle it. He knows this. But he's been, there's this continual thing that he's not happy about that came up that wasn't communicated to him in the way it should have been.
Jessica Vanrose (54:35.5)
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (54:54.339)
and keeps bringing it up. I'm like, when are you going to have a conversation with so and so about this? Because it keeps coming up and it's going to come out in a really not so good way one of these days. And I am...
I don't want to hear about it. I'm tired of hearing about it. I want you to go do something about this or I don't want to hear about it anymore. And he's done the same thing with me. We've been together for 34 years, married for almost 32. Like we know how to, we've learned it, but that is, you know, think about those things too. But because yeah, that's a form of self care, standing up for yourself and also standing up for other women when the opportunity presents itself.
Jessica Vanrose (55:20.45)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (55:28.259)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (55:31.63)
It is.
Jessica Vanrose (55:37.165)
Mm.
Melissa Crook (55:37.787)
you know, because and when you're more apt to stand up for yourself, it gives you the courage and confidence and it also is contagious when others see you doing that. You're like, maybe I can do that too.
Jessica Vanrose (55:52.138)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. No, I completely agree. And so funny about your story because I do have one very similar. Not a partner, but one of my friends was talking about something consistently, but it was it was something where it was actually outside of his control. And I just said to him, I'm like, I can't help you with this anymore.
I think you need to see a therapist because like, you know, you have to know that limit. It's like I've, I have been here, I've listened, I've supported, but like we're at the point now where this is like festering for you. And that's not something I can help with. So like, you know, you need somebody that you can actually talk to who's trained to help you through that, you know.
Melissa Crook (56:46.849)
Yeah, yeah. And it also puts the onus back on the response. Yeah, that and responsibility on them that go find a tool that can solve this. And I'm not the tool.
Jessica Vanrose (56:48.022)
Yeah, but yeah, setting those boundaries.
Jessica Vanrose (56:57.986)
Yeah. I am not.
Melissa Crook (57:01.089)
And this relationship is not the tool. Yeah, that's a great, yeah. And we have to, and we are so, we're like, we want to show up for people and we want to be good listeners and we want to be good friends. But there comes to a point it's okay to speak up and say, reached my max point on this one. Have you thought about this?
Jessica Vanrose (57:17.696)
Yeah. And like I've had it happen a few times in friendships. And it is really hard because I am I'm battling I'm a recovering people pleaser. You know, I'm battling all of those thoughts and feelings that are still there. But I know that that's not the path that I want. You know, so yeah, but yeah, it's just like, I
Melissa Crook (57:30.546)
yeah, me too.
Yeah.
Melissa Crook (57:40.693)
Yeah, thousand percent. Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (57:47.16)
Find that those conversations, if you can approach it out of love and kindness and like you're not coming at the conversation with any sort of like, like don't do it in the moment where you're like, my God, shut up. Don't do it then. Wait until you're in a regulated place and then you can have that conversation and love and kindness and.
Melissa Crook (57:52.757)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Melissa Crook (58:03.127)
Right, right, exactly.
Jessica Vanrose (58:16.852)
Express yourself better.
Melissa Crook (58:19.107)
Yeah, 100%. Absolutely.
Jessica Vanrose (58:22.114)
Yeah. Do you have any final thoughts or anything you want to share?
Melissa Crook (58:27.489)
I think just know that you're worth investing in and know that when you see yourself that way, that you're not only showing up well for yourself, but you're showing up well and better for other people. for me, that really starts with like, start unpacking those layers and parts of yourself, other parts of yourself and your story that you don't love. Start getting curious. And this comes from Ted Lasso. This comes from my therapist. This comes from a lot of people. Be curious.
rather than judgmental and that will help you. You may not love that decision you made. You may not love that season of life, the relationships that were in it, but if you can get curious and meet yourself where you were at that point and be like, I don't love that, but based on this scenario, I understand why I showed up that way. I've learned this. I don't want to do that again, but I'm not going to hide it anymore. I'm not going to carry that shame around it anymore. I'm going to acknowledge it and process it. Sometimes it has
Jessica Vanrose (58:59.854)
Mmm.
Melissa Crook (59:27.473)
healing that needs to take place. But when you that enables you to value yourself well, you don't carry around shame and secrets you acknowledge your accountable, but you're kind and empathetic to yourself, you will prioritize what you value.
And if you value yourself, you prioritize yourself. When you prioritize yourself and take care of yourself well, you show up so much better for everybody, so much healthier, not healthier for everybody else.
Jessica Vanrose (01:00:00.236)
Yeah, totally. It's that analogy of the airplane mask, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Crook (01:00:05.847)
Absolutely, 100%. Yes, you cannot help your child if you cannot breathe. So yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Jessica Vanrose (01:00:13.166)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much for coming on, Melissa. This has been absolutely wonderful. Can you please share wherever the listeners can come and connect with you? I know you have a book as well. So if you want to share all the things.
Melissa Crook (01:00:34.113)
Yes, if you go to embracing layers.com, it's all there. You can find links to how you can buy our book, Embracing Layers Unapologetically. You can find our podcast episodes, panel episodes where I bring on panels of women together and we discuss the things that help us to live authentic and well and the things that get in the way of that. We have resources from all of our guests that they share that help them. We have blogs about the episodes that give you ways to engage.
with our podcast episodes. The ways to engage are also in our book. So it allows you to personalize it and really apply it and engage with them, not just listen and think, that was a good idea, but a way to actually engage with it. And then I can, I'm available. You can fill out our contact form. I'm available to come speak to your groups about these, this framework that we use, but yeah, embracinglators.com tells you where to follow us on social. Go there. It's all there.
Jessica Vanrose (01:01:30.356)
Awesome. That sounds great. I will have it linked in the show notes for sure. Thank you again so much, Melissa. This has been absolutely wonderful.
Melissa Crook (01:01:40.567)
You bet. Jessica, thanks so much for this conversation and for what you do on here. This is so important for women. We need to be having these conversations.
Jessica Vanrose (01:01:48.224)
Yeah, thank you. Like for everything that you do. Like everything you just listed, my goodness. You are doing a lot and we appreciate you for it.
Melissa Crook (01:01:54.403)
Absolutely.
Melissa Crook (01:02:00.202)
Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you
